Freedom of speech

[gerbie]

Freedom of speech

In several discussions I have heard Americans referring to their own country as 'the best country in the world'. "At least we can give our opinion whatever happens. Freedom of speech is in our constitution", were points that were brought up more than once.

How true is this? Soon after the twin towers collapsed a list of 150 songs was distributed amongst radio stations. These songs were inappropriate apparently. And rightly so in some cases. It isn't difficult to know why people wouldn't want to hear AC/DC singing about a Highway to hell. Even Aeroplane by the RHCP and Learning to fly by Pink Floyd, even though fairly innocent songs, were on the list. Not strange either. But who decided that John Lennon's Imagine had to be on that list? Why is one of the best songs in history banned from radio stations? Could it be that the government didn't want the people to think about "all the people living life in peace"? Could it be that Bush didn't want "the world will be as one", happening sometime soon? Am I cynical if I think that by putting Lennon on the black list the real agenda of the government becomes clear.

Only a couple of days later I heard a story about the Voice of America that couldn't air an interview with one of the leaders of Afghanistan. "The people don't want to hear things like this in times like this", or something a long that way was the argument to ban the interview.

Wouldn't it be against the American constitution to ban it? What happened to freedom of speech?

Comments

[the-dibbler.livejournal.com]

Clear Channel (radio station owners galore) issued a statement that the list of 150 "banned" songs was an urban legend so to speak. There is no such list. Local stations owned by Clear Channel (who supposedly issued the list) have been playing those songs.

Don't take everything you read forgranted. research it. then research it some more.

american sock

'The List'

[olivethomas.livejournal.com]

This supposed list was actually the result of station managers at Clear Channels owned stations confering with each other about what songs would probably not be a good idea to play in light of the tragedy. Given the number of people making suggestions a few odd choices come up. Some song considered 'cheerful' and 'upbeat' were added - some at listener's suggestion - because they might not fit in during a time of mourning. No-one was obligated to 'obey the list' and many didn't.

In that context one can a imagine a song about world peace and no countries or religion might make the 'opt not to play-list'. In the soundtrack of life playing 'Imagine' while scenes of unbelievable tragedy are still on TV comes off as bitter irony.

[invisiblechild.livejournal.com]

hmmm..No comment on that...

BUT...ok, what happened WAS horrible. Yes. Okay.

I'm just saying this...but somebody attacks THE United States..a lot of innocent people die. Which is horrible, totally. I've lived in that country for god's sake and have a lot of friends there, of course I care.

BUT.

I just visited Beograd...saw places totally destroyed by NATO. Talked to a good friend of mine who lost a lot of people very close to him in the war. INNOCENT PEOPLE.

The rest of the world is SUPPOSED to be crying rivers for the US right now, you know. But the western world never had very much sympathy for Yugoslavia. Not even the small, innocent people over there.
But when it comes to US...you better have sympathy...

Sorry if I offended someone. Beograd just made me cry. Rivers.

The list

[aquariusmama.livejournal.com]

Actually it was pretty funny to read the songs on the list issued by Clear Channel. They had the list in the paper and were making fun of it. It was not issued by the government!!!! Come on!!! The funny thing is that I had heard at least 3 of the songs on the list that afternoon listening to a Clear Channel owned radio station. The DJs were ignoring it. It was pretty silly. I could see some of the songs being insensitive, but considering how much Americans love satire...some people welcome a little irony.
Where did you hear that the government banned songs???? Just curious...

oooh, not done

[aquariusmama.livejournal.com]

About the airing of an interview with an Afghan leader...banned?? what??? I don't know if that was one of the interviews I've seen, but I have seen a couple. Right after the attacks there were shows all over the place showing recent interviews too. That wouldn't happen. People want to be informed and to know what's going on. There is nothing wrong with showing an interview. The fact is almost anything can be shown on TV, and often is. (Cable, not neccessarily network TV, but who doesn't have cable or dish now?) Nobody is protecting our "fragile" American psyche, don't worry. The comedians have started to run with this already, like I said...irony and satire...very popular.

I think you have been listening to the mis-informed :). Don't worry, no one is messing with our freedom of speech, yet! Can you imagine journalists allowing any of that??? No way, it would be a huge story!

Re: 'The List'

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

Whatever happens, I'd say the peaceful message of John Lennon can never be inappropriate. Could be me though.

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

How can a list that exists and people react to be an urban legend? Even if that list wasn't government based, even if it wasn't the government, it is still ridiculous that stations even consider banning some songs.
What about the other example?

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

Your example is just one of the few. You are absolutely right in stressing out that the attacks, who were obviously extremely hurtful, puts other disasters in the shadow. What about Beograd? What about the hundreds of illegal bombings of the USA in Iraq, in which plenty of innocents died? What about the tens of thousands who have suffered from the Taliban in the last decade? What about Liberia, Sierra Leone, Nigeria, Timor, Somalia and other countries? And those were only in the last couple of years. The list could go on for ages if we go further back in time.

However bad the catastrophe was, people should ALWAYS pay attention to similar disasters happening around the globe.

Thanx for stressing that out!

Re: oooh, not done

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

I think I have been misinformed about the radio list, but I am 100% sure I heard the issue about 'The voice of America' on local radio, coming from a reliable source. If I'm not mistaken, that channel is not aiming at America, but at the rest of the world. You might not even have it in the US. I know the media in the US will report anything they can, some of your papers are the best in the world. But it is still a different matter as to what the government wants the rest of the world to know.

Banned music

[tbone.livejournal.com]

I had basically the same reaction when I heard that "Imagine" was on the list. It reminded me of an episode of "WKRP in Cincinnati" where the same song was banned from the WKRP playlist.

I never did hear that any of this was a government edict; it totally originated with the radio stations and their ownership/management. That's a big differece. We still have Constitutionally guaranteed free speech (with a few notable exceptions) but what private parties do is their own business. If a disk jockey or station manager had played one of those songs, he probably wouldn't have gone to jail or been fined, but he might have lost his job. It's just self-censorship, that's all. Probably not too bright, but that's all it is.

Re: oooh, not done

[aquariusmama.livejournal.com]

True enough. The government needs to have some secrets though. Forgot who said this "The 1st casualty of war is the truth." I have enough confidence in my government to hope that if they don't release certain information there is a good reason behind it.

[frannywentzel.livejournal.com]

I do not understand and cannot abide the moralism that allows for acts of genocide but chastises someone from trying to stop it as Malcolm X would say, "by any means necessary". By any chance did you happen to visit the areas in Kosovo devastated by the Jugoslav army? Did you happen to check of the number of mass graves of innocent civilians exterminated by Milosovic's Einsatzgr?pen?

When a people are slaughtering their fellow man they lose the right to call themselves 'innocent'. It has long been considered to be right to kill a person to stop that person in the act of killing another. Wars are a bad thing innocent people get killed on all sides. But NATO wouldn't have had to be there if Milosovic wasn't in a killing mood.

Things you can't say in broadcasting...

[(Anonymous)]

Reminds me of Ceorge Carlin and his Supreme Court ruling on the words you can't say on radio, which if I remember correctly were

shit
fuck
asshole
jackoff
motherfucker
cocksucker

His response to the fracas was that if you didn't like hearing them there were two controls on your radio. One turned it off the other changed the station.

Some of the 'standard and practices' rulings he encountered in broadcasting were odd to say the least. You can say 'pissed off' but you can't say 'pissed on' as in...
"Why are you so pissed off?"
"He pissed on me!"
You can say "pissed" if you mean 'mad' but not if you mean 'to urinate'.

Re:

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

"It has long been considered to be right to kill a person to stop that person in the act of killing another"

Wrong as this may be, I shan't discuss that point. But it still excludes innocent civilians. Both in Kosovo AND Beograd. But also in NY and all the other places I have mentioned in another comment here.

Re: oooh, not done

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

And we already knew that I lacked that confidence :-)

Re: Banned music

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

I wasn't making a big deal either, just thought it was funny.

Re: Things you can't say in broadcasting...

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

Interesting. Never realised so much hassle went into conversation on the radio.

[invisiblechild.livejournal.com]

I HAVE visited Kosovo...my close friend (ex-fianc? actually) is serbian and do you think he and his friends actually have ever supported Milosovic??? No way, as long as I can remember he has hated him. Like most people in his country.

What he has to say about Kosovo is that what was done there was a disgrace and a dissaster.

Yet he lost his brother and many of his best friends, his leg and his profession.

Yet HE thiks NATO just what did what they had to do...

The world is full of examples were innocent (or what ever you wanna call them...) people get hurt... Are americans less innocent than some other people somewhere else? This was just a thought anyway...I guess this is just how it goes. The answer to violence is violence and nobody is innocent. I don't know.

Don't wanna offend anyone. Just wanted to share a different perspective.

Re:

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

And rightly so.

[frannywentzel.livejournal.com]

At least the bastard's in the dock and if we can get hold of Karadic (spelling) we can at least punish two of those responsible for Jugoslavia's current troubles.

Someone in our legal department clued me into a concept of law in which if my action directly cause another person to take a life (i.e. in self-defence) I can be held accountable for murder. For example if I hold up a beer store and the clerk fires back and shoots another customer dead, I can be charged in the murder of that customer.

The same legal concept if applied to Jugoslav war crimes would hold that Milosovic forced NATO into bombing and is as accountable to the damage NATO has done if he'd dropped the bombs himself.

[frannywentzel.livejournal.com]

If a policeman sees someone in the act of killing someone he has the right and the duty to stop that act even if he has to shoot the fellow to stop him.

I remember one of the comment an ex-GI made while touring an old Army B-17 about the Hiroshima bomb. "All Hirohito would've had to do is show one of these" (pulls white handkerchief from pocket)

Wars are not merely 'disagreements' gone wrong. They are acts of criminal violence which must be stopped by any means necessary I'm afraid. Since we don't have one of those Gort robots (from tThe Day the Earth Stood Still) to keep watch imperfect men - often with conflicting agendae - have to do the job of making the world (relatively) safe for freedom and all that.

All too often that job falls to the Americans which means that they get to set the conditions and agendae to their liking. (He who lays the gold lays the rules) If people want a safer world and don't want the US to dominate it they have to make up their minds and get organised. Freedom like Power and just about everything else isn't granted it is taken.

[invisiblechild.livejournal.com]

Well you know, that's how most Serbians see it, really.

One thing my friend said wast that he wished Milosevic would instead of being in prison come down and spend even just one day with the ordinary people of Yugoslavia, to see what he has done to HIS people. Right now he has a swiming pool and a cable tv (according to my friend) when most Serbians can't afford a loaf of bread.

Re: Things you can't say in broadcasting...

[olivethomas.livejournal.com]

Some call in host will bleep you if you mention a business or say a housing development by name because it's considered either free advertisement or if the comment is negative, lawsuit-bait. you should see the trouble Dave Letterman gets into. I think at one time he'd managed to draw the ire the nation of Columbia.

On another note Comedy Central's South Park just ran an episode in which 'shit' and variations of that word were repeated endlessly with a digital counter keeping score. It was subsequently shown that 'curse words' were indeed curses that brought up some great medieval demon from the center of the earth...

Re: oooh, not done

[aquariusmama.livejournal.com]

yep.

[frannywentzel.livejournal.com]

Filmmaker Orson Welles once observed; "There is no such thing as 'Justice' - just good luck and bad luck." and I don't think that was as Harry Lime in 'The Third Man'.

Re: Things you can't say in broadcasting...

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

And still I remember listening to Howard Stern during my brief visit of the states, he must get into a lot of shit. And South Park is what we cynical europeans call un-american good! It brings up a lot of things that most people will miss, great series.

Re:

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

Could be a good clause if it is used well. If misused, it could be a very dangerous concept.

Re:

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

And do you really think Milosevic likes where he is? However luxury it might be. I'm sure he has cable tv, access to a swimming pool might be more like it. He wouldn't give it a second thought if it meant freedom.

Re:

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

I think you are right about the first bit, I'm not sure if sentencing is beyond the point. If found guilty, he should serve time like a common criminal as well.

Ya se que no tiene nada que ver pero....

[caniche.livejournal.com]

Te gustan los Heroes del silencio?????? No sabia que los conocieras!!! SObre todo la cancion de "Entre 2 tierras" es genial!! Tambien me gusta la de Maldito Duende...

And I also agree with you.. they "think" they are the only country with freedom, gods! That really PISSES me, you know?

Re: Ya se que no tiene nada que ver pero....

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

Sorprendote mas: conoci a los heroes en Austria! Aqui nunca lo he oido. Cuando trabaje en Espana he comprado unas cintas, Maldito Duendo hizo en un bar de Karaoke!

Y ya sabes como yo pienso de tus vecinos del norte. No tienen idea de lo que paso en el resto del mundo, pero saben lo mejor todavia. Bastante irritante.