United States

[gerbie]

I have used this point quite a few times now during a discussion, so I might as well put it here as well.

I consider the United States of America a third world country.

Look at it and you'll realise I am right. It has all the characteristics that are normally attributes to developing countries.

Apart from the barbarian death penalty, there are plenty of other signs. The prisons are full, the percentage people in prison is unrivalled (another sign that the death penalty doesn't actually scare people off), but worse is that in prison the percentages of minorities are huge. And so are the percentages of innocent, under age and people who are not capable of managing normal decisions. I'm not even referring to the way people are being treated inside.

Class justice is normal, is the rule, not the exception, money can buy you freedom, lack of money gives innocents a real risk of ending behind bars anyway.

It's education system is a joke. Apart from a few top schools and universities, I am surprised every single time again when I bump into Americans who don't know their own country as well as an average foreigner does. People earn a degree just because they happen to be able to use their overweight on a football field.

There is no other industrialised country that has so much poverty, the social system is pathetic as well. No real unemployment benefits to speak of, no serious rights for employees, no holidays that deserve that name. Health care is unaffordable if you do not happen to be rich. The difference in standard between private and public hospitals shouldn't exist.

Some of their cities are as dangerous as other top cities for danger in the world, not coincidentally in 3rd world countries.

The political system can't be taking serious either, the last election just an example. Isn't it funny that Castro actually offered to send some observers to the USA to help them out with counting. Why does one election have to have dozens of different ballots and methods of counting? Somebody with less votes than his opponent can actually become president. Apart from the 2 traditional parties, no one has a chance.

Their drugs policy is old fashioned. Even though Astma patients may benefit from smoking a joint, they pretend that smoking something innocent is as dangerous as dealing harddrugs. Statistics show though that the repressive system only temps the youth to try out. In comparison with countries where the softdrugs are decriminalised, the percentage smokers in the States is nearly twice as high.

The right to wear a weapon, the right to defend yourself is ridiculous. If nobody is entitled to have weapons in homes, most of the massacres in schools and others public places could easily be avoided. Though mr Heston and his political mafia still remains an important political factor in the country.

There is no country where there are as many serial killers. Is that coincidence?

How can a tiny, fairly small country as Cuba be condemned for being communistic, whereas world power China, more communistic than the Caribean isle, is the biggest trading partner?

Why does the whole world have to suffer for the fact that the United States used the capitalistic system, that rules the world since the second world war, to add to its own power. Sometimes I wonder if the world would have been worse off if the Germans had won the war? Don't get me wrong on that last remark, I'm only trying to say that extreme capitalism to me resembles fascism in many ways.

Unfortunately we are talking about the country that uses it military power and economical influence (power of numbers) to influence the whole F***ing world. If I wasn't a pacifist and a baseball addict I'd suggest to just nuke the place.

Comments

[lorelei-aisling.livejournal.com]

I think a big reason why the USA is like that is because those who DO see what is wrong with the country just sit around and bitch about it without going out and doing something about it.

Also a lot of it is socialization and politics. You have a very cookie cutter type of thing going on here. But there are a few Yanks who don't like that and end up being outcasts.

I fall into that category. I'm weird and eccentric by Yank standards. I like "weird" sports. I speak four languages. I can use those four languages to tackle others. I know a lot about overseas politics and history (cuz it is more interesting =))

A lot of my friends here in this horrid state of Indiana are from other countries.

I'm not sure how USA got to be that way. But I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of it came from following 19th century Britian's example. After all isn't the USA the bastard child of England? =P =)

But I Live Here!

[javamental.livejournal.com]

And I agree with you one hundred percent on just about everything you said. And just to top things off, we just voted in an illiterate ass who only interested in padding his pocket and pissing folks off before he gets voted out in three years. (Of course, he had to cheat to get voted in in the first place!)

Re: But I Live Here!

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

That is a problem if you live there. The thing is obviously that there are plenty of good people in the US as well, and because of statistics if only 10% of its inhabitants are nice people who do not fall into any of the categories I described, these 10% still outnumber the whole population of my country and believe me, there are plenty who are more American than most Americans.

Re:

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

I do agree with you that I am stereotyping there, (see also comment on Dreamdancer's comment), but unfortunately you seem to have taken the worst things of the English, not the good things. England is a wonderfull country, a bit conservative too my liking, but great people, great sense of tradition, funny politics (and not as bad as they seem), beautiful towns and cities and the best sense of humour in the world (and I know you agree on that). So how come the States have developed in the way they have, in contrast to the UK, that by the way is coming to depend more and more on the US, and Australia, a country who in the 19th century was started by british criminals, avoiding the whole political debate on aboriginal rights, as that's a completely different story. How can 100 years make so much difference?

Re:

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

Stupid computer crashed, did my comment appear or not?

Re:

[lorelei-aisling.livejournal.com]

hehe I just like to pick on the Brits. It's fun.

But really, every country has their good points and horrid points. And it is easy to stereotype in a fit of anger.

The good ol' US of A

[tbone.livejournal.com]

As an American, I agree with most of what you say. It's not perfect, and there are a lot of stupid people who have much more than they deserve. I've always wondered what made the USA into the nation it is today with the characteristics you describe. It probably comes from colonial times. America was the land where you could come and worship as you want, or escape your totalitarian government. Over time, that attitude morphed into "I can do whatever I want, and no one can tell me otherwise. I'm entitled!"

Re: But I Live Here!

[javamental.livejournal.com]

We "good" Americans are feeling out-numbered, I'm sure. I know I do. *laughs* So, on behalf of us good Americans, I'll apologize. *grin*

Re: But I Live Here!

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

Don't want your apologies, but thanx anyway. The fact that your outnumbered means that your influence, unfortunately, isn't too big. But the fact that the majority of my LJ-friends are American proves that I do see the difference as well. Sometimes when writing things have got to be more extreme than what you really think. At least that's my style of writing. Apart from that it provokes more reactions, I'd only wish somebody would contradict me, would be even more fun ;-)

Re: The good ol' US of A

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

There is no perfect country full stop, it just annoys me that there is no country in Latin America where the CIA hasn't interfered during the last 50 years, that the whole world looks to the 'richest' country in the world before doing anything, that everybody thinks it is the best country in the world.

Re:

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

I do agree on your last statement there, also that it is easy to nag the pommies, as the British are called here in Oz. Only have to disagree on the anger bit. The anger is not a fit, it has accumulated over the last decade. It is not something that just does spring to mind, I really feel that way.

Re:

[lorelei-aisling.livejournal.com]

Yeah you are right. It does accumulate. But sometimes you feel that fit of anger.

I am from Irish heritage and my family always told me how "Those damn Brits starved our family our of our rightful homes." When I dated a British guy, my Grandpa was FURIOUS with me.

Re:

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

Likewise will any Dutch be suspicious with Germans at first, as they could be the children of grandchildren of the Nazi who shot at our grandfathers. There's plenty of good Germans, but we have to get to know them first, no benefit of the doubt.

Re:

[lorelei-aisling.livejournal.com]

My Dutch friends said the same thing. I speak German because I took it in high school and college. My German teacher is from Switzerland and lived in Stuttgart. I liked him so I took the class. I can understand Dutch, but when I try to speak it, I have this hideous German accent. =(

Re:

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

Which doesn't help if you actually do speak to the Dutch, but I have to say I'm impressed, not many foreigners do learn or understand Dutch. It is a small language and apart from that a lot of the Dutch can easily cope in other languages.

Re:

[lorelei-aisling.livejournal.com]

There are some similarities to German that I pick up, if I really listen hard. Plus I have a dictionary and grammar book. I enjoy languages. I have 18 different languages in my reference library. My total library contains about 800 books the last time I counted. My life revolves around anything with languages. =)

Re:

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

Again we're being very similar there, I've got more languages on my shelves (don't dare call it a library yet, though I think I must have at least the same amount you mentioned) than I can speak or read. I actually read children's books in Frysian and African, 2 languages I can't speak either, but as they're related to Dutch, children's books are still possible. I have started collecting Asterix in all different dialects and languages now, after reching 8 different versions of Garfield and not encountering any new ones.

Listen...

[cymri4.livejournal.com]

I'm an American-Israeli. I live in Israel right now, but I lived in America for most of my life. I go to an international school and CONSTANTLY hear Italians, Russians, Canadians, South Africans, every single nationality you could possibly imagine making fun of America. My US History class would have been more accurately titled "lets see how America fucked up in its 225 years of existence" and it got really OLD after about 1800.

Let me tell you, living in a country that there is NO constitution in is not all that fun. The stuff that you just wrote? ONLY because of the US constitution would you be allowed to say things like that. You go live in another country and try and say stuff like that. The American justice system is not perfect, I'll admit that. But it is the best in the world. The Miranda rights, Gideon V. Wainwright, INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY...all of these things are so important. In every other country, they don't put up with all of that. Education is lacking, I'll admit that. But when people like Jeb Bush, the governor of Florida, tried to give educational vouchers to better schools for families, everybody screamed. The upper classes of America are paying nearly 50% of their gross profits in taxes for medicare, medicaid and social security. I'll tell you, I see alot of people living below the poverty line driving cadillacs and having their hair and nails done and screaming about upper class oppression. If they spent that money on FOOD they'd be better off. People lech off of the system, THAT'S why it doesn't work. Instead of just sitting here bitching, you see a problem? Write to your congressman. Do something about it. And remember, a good deal of the world's population would give their arms for american citizenship. Don't waste yours.

Re: Listen...

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

Have you actually read the article? Have you seen the discussion that followed in which several Americans agreed on those points. If you had read carefully, you could have concluded that I am not American. And I wouldn't give an arm to become one. I wouldn't want the citizenship if it had a cheque of a million dollars attached to it. Do you really listen to the Italians, Russians, Canadians and South Africans, or are you one of those Americans who blindly believe that their country is the best in the world? Are you a result of the system, which says often enough that red is blue, and therefore people believe it is blue. What I am actually saying is: have you thought about your country?

I don't mind anybody being proud of their country. Yours must have done something right in the past, to obtain the power it has nowadays. But do you honestly believe that it is the only country with freedom of speech? Keep dreaming! Do you think I made up those facts that were in my statement? Think again.

How many countries do you know well enough to judge? I have been travelling a lot lately, I have worked in quite a few countries over the last decade. Still I only think I can tell a lot about a dozen countries or so. And then there are a few dozen others of which I have an impression. Which still leaves me in the blank over hundred something countries I know nothing more about than the name and it's capital or language.

But out of those few dozen countries, there are very few I rate lower than the USA. Any Scandinavian country (I'd gladly pay 70% taxes and accept a few leaches in the system) have a great standard of living. Most western European countries have everything you like in the States. Plus they have abolished the Death penalty. And they've got culture that goes back to the time when the Indians still ruled North America. I'd rather live in Cuba, Honduras, Indonesia or Venezuela, however much I could write about these countries as well, at least I'd know I'd be getting on with most of the locals and I would live in atmosphere that was friendly, not driven by money and greed. The corruption would at least be open, you know what to expect. And it would be much safer in the meantime.

Don't try to defend what is wrong. I respect the right to like your native country and as I said previous: I love Major League Baseball. But your arguments still haven't done anything to my opinion that the USA is a third world country.

I am an American...

[prytania.livejournal.com]

Who hasn't had the chance to visit other places and other than in the books I read, have no idea of what it is to live in another country. I understand the attitude people of the world have about American's as the arguments are usually things that I myself have a hard time with in my society.

Death Penalty/Prison Systems/Civil Justices: Grotesque display of power on behalf of our government and a tribute to the old fashioned way of thinking by those in our country who have been brainwashed into supporting these people. These rules we are accepting were brought about by old fashioned thinkers, and contrary to what the world may think, a growing majority of our newer generation are apalled at and no longer will stand to live under old laws that don't fit into a changing society. As a mother and wife I know all about the errors of the jail system as my husband was recently imprisoned for two months for protecting my children from a madman. (he has since been released). Our Justice System is in dire need of reformation. The social ills we tolerate amongst our peers of all different nationalities must be stopped.

Education: Agreed. There needs to be more culturalization integrated into American studies with greater emphasis on broadening one's education by rote and not to fill an elective (extra class used as filler by student).

Politics: It is a joke. Most of the newer generations feel helpless in the process and don't even bother to vote. A broader partied system is desired in which the voters are educated on each and every prospect, and as seen in Florida, a new system must be integrated.

Drugs: If our officials weren't making so much money off of drug convictions it may be a policy that had a chance to change. This would also lighten the prison load extensively for those that have been given 10 years for Marijuana charges. Some states are extreme in the punishment of Marijuana crimes. The money paid out by the convicted is outrageous.

Weapons: Believe me with all the problems mentioned so far....none of us needs to have a freaking weapon.

So..you see, it's not the points of mention that I disagree with in your entry. It's the implications on the normal citizens that live here. We may not agree with everything happening in government. But we're figuring out what we can do about it and how we can change it. We are stubborn. We can be tenacious, and the principals that we as a people have fought for, we wont allow to be trampled. Mind you...I said principals. We still believe in all the freedoms we have fought for although we are still trying to compromise with our government in how we can come together in IMPLEMENTING these ideals.

I believe everyone should be entitled to their gods/god, their politics, their personal views. My country is not perfect. It has had atrocities as everyother country has had. That doesn't mean that here today or tomorrow I have to accept the atrocities those who violently uphold their beliefs wish to inflict on me or my neighbors. Terrorism cannot be allowed. It would be my desire to find those responsible and punish them. Wiping out a whole region based on the actions of few is not in our hearts. To accept it, would be to condone it...and we will not do that. To say that our country should be nuked because there are individuals or groups who haven't "gotten it" is a horrible thing to say. I would defy any citizen of any country to prove that each citizen living therein wasn't guilty of a crime against that which is right. No country has perfect citizens or governments, and to say that we should get rid of them because they are human and thus doomed to be imperfect for the rest of their lives is insanity.

Re: I am an American...

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

I apologize for the last sentence of that entry. You are absolutely right. It was written ages ago, this week we have seen how bad terror can be. I never meant that last sentence seriously, you seem to agree on each of the points you've found throughout the entry, so I can only admit that I was wrong in the way I have put down my criticism. Sorry.

Every country makes mistakes. Yours has, mine has as well. Just sometimes some mistakes get up your rear end more than others. I do not withdraw the comments on your country, therefore I'll leave the entry and do not delete it, but I apologize to anyone who is offended by the conclusion of it. Thanx for pointing it out to me.

Re: I am an American...

[prytania.livejournal.com]

Hey. No problem at all. If anything what we are currently going through has impressed upon me that all the misunderstandings, problems, arguments we have with anyone...are petty. I would not condemn you for your thoughts or feelings, especially those you enter in your journal of all things! I simply felt I had to respond. I know there was no malice intended.

Well wishings,

Pry~

Re: I am an American...

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

Thanx. I know it is my journal, but by posting your journal on the WWW, you automatically invite people to read it. If I don't want that, I should make it private, lock entries, don't react to others. I opened up mine, even entered entries in the topics section and communities. Discussions are welcome. Knowledge is power, the more people tell me, the stronger I become. In this case I had a point, reality has just pointed out to me that you always have to be carefull with words.

US a Third World Country

[(Anonymous)]

I'm glad that you made it quite clear that YOU believe the US is a third world country. As noted in your numerous comments, the US does have problems that are similar to "real" third world countries, but it is certainly not a Third World Country. There are probably areas in the US that are very "Third World-like", I have been to downtown LA and if that was the only place in the US that I traveled to... I would agree w/you 100%. But most areas in the US Have you ever been to Mexico or the Philippines? The poor people in those countries have no opportunities, no chance to make a better life for themselves. Poor people in the US have many opportunities. Anyone, and I mean anyone, can attend a state University... get a degree and achieve some economic success. It is easier for poor people to attend a University than the middle class--as the poor are eligible for grants & loans that are not available to people in the middle class.

The US has the largest economy in the world, no other country even comes close. Take out California and the US is still #1 and California is #4. You must be an Expo or Blue Jay fan. Canada is a great, great country. Don't let anyone tell you any different. It's cities are clean and they are quite safe. Canadians may be better off than Americans in many aspects, but to say that the US is a third world country is certainly not accurate. Your comments are beginning to make me question the Canadian education system, which I regard as world class.

Re: US a Third World Country

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

I have visited Mexico and to be honest, I would prefer to live in most parts of that country over the US. As I stated in some of the comments answering other comments of this post, I exaggerated. Deliberately.

But I don't rate a country on it's economy. I know the US are the world biggest, that's why they have got the power they haev nowadays.

Btw, I am not an Expo's fan,certainly not Blue Jay fan, not even Canadian. Don't know where you got that idea from, but you could have looked that one up before judging the Canadians based on one supposed citizen.

Re: US a Third World Country

[(Anonymous)]

Well Gerbie,

As you didn't mention (in your response to me) which nationality you are... I'm not going to ask. Live where ever you want. If you use the "real" definition of "Third World", it is impossible for the US (and one other Country) to be "Third World".

I wish everyone in Mexico thought the way you do... That way I wouldn't have to watch my tax payer dollar wasted to pay for the US-Mexico border patrol and all of the INS issues related to that. Mexicans would have the same visitation rights as Canada, Japan, etc. and there wouldn't be 100s of heat stroke deaths every year due to people illegally crossing the border.

Re: US a Third World Country

[gerbie.livejournal.com]

Well, whoever you are,

if you're curious there is plenty of user info available on LJ, including my nationality. I don't know what the 'real' definition of third world is, I just looked at characteristics, to me they still stand up. I don't know which one other country you are referring to, could be me.

I wish everyone with common sense would think like you do as well. Open borders and a lot of problems can be solved. Who cares if some drugs get taken past them, they do now as well!