On June the 1st the Dutch have their first ever referendum. I don't know what to do. I am pro the European constitution, but against a referendum. What do I do?
If the Dutch should vote in favour or against the European Constitution. It would give the EU a bit more power and the countries that belong to it a bit less.
Democracy means you vote for someone to represent you. Why do I need to go out for a single issue again? Too many disadvantages, perhaps I'll write about that someday later (your request is first still on the list), but I don't believe any referendum can ever be honest.
I would love to hear you write about this in detail when you get a chance.
Personally, I like the referendum process. What really bothers me is when the public vote on a specific issue, but the elected officials overturn it. We recently had a referendum to have term limits for legislators, but the legislators were able to get it overturned. What's the point of the process if they are going to do that?
There are some decisions that, for whatever reason, we've decided the people need a direct voice with. Some states have laws that say there can be no tax increases without a referendum. That can be both good and bad.
Legislators and representatives are great for deciding mundane issues that the public has little interest in, but I like the idea that I can have a direct say in taxation, constitutional amendments, and other things.
Why is a referendum not honest? The majority decides.
Your type of democracy – vote for a represent - is much less honest. The represents can make decisions the majority doesn’t want. And don’t say the voters can’t make up a their mind (how the hell do they do that by voting a represent) or that money can buy you votes. A referendum forces politicians to be clear and to explain why they think people should vote in favour or against your new European law for example. Figures show, f.e. Denmark, that the people who vote at a referendum know much more about the subject, because they have to think about it.
By the way: voting for a represent is not the only kind of democracy (it’s what you think is democracy), there are much more ways to come to a democratic decision. The problem is: you can not just mix theme, and that what is happening in the Netherlands.
I don't like the idea of losing veto rights in more than 40 cases and that because of that holland will loose power as small country, but we still pay more than others in Europe per capita. Till they fix that, I'm firmly against the constitution. I also want to give out a signal to Europe that I'm against further enlargment of the european union, the constitution has nothing to do with that per se, but the only way I can give that signal right now is by voting against the constitution and thereby slowing all processes down.
A veto right is not very democratic imho, hence I feel that the Netherlands, big (people, economy) or small (territory), shouldn't have a veto.
The Netherlands should pay more per capita, as they make more as well. So should countries like Luxemburg, Finland and Sweden. I do not expect the average Irishman, Italian or Greek to cough up the same amount, let alone some poor Pole or Romanian.
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Date: 2005-04-12 07:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-12 07:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-12 08:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-12 08:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-12 08:17 pm (UTC)Personally, I like the referendum process. What really bothers me is when the public vote on a specific issue, but the elected officials overturn it. We recently had a referendum to have term limits for legislators, but the legislators were able to get it overturned. What's the point of the process if they are going to do that?
no subject
Date: 2005-04-15 04:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-15 05:05 pm (UTC)Legislators and representatives are great for deciding mundane issues that the public has little interest in, but I like the idea that I can have a direct say in taxation, constitutional amendments, and other things.
no subject
Date: 2005-04-15 07:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-14 02:27 pm (UTC)Your type of democracy – vote for a represent - is much less honest. The represents can make decisions the majority doesn’t want. And don’t say the voters can’t make up a their mind (how the hell do they do that by voting a represent) or that money can buy you votes.
A referendum forces politicians to be clear and to explain why they think people should vote in favour or against your new European law for example. Figures show, f.e. Denmark, that the people who vote at a referendum know much more about the subject, because they have to think about it.
By the way: voting for a represent is not the only kind of democracy (it’s what you think is democracy), there are much more ways to come to a democratic decision. The problem is: you can not just mix theme, and that what is happening in the Netherlands.
no subject
Date: 2005-04-14 03:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-01 04:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-12 08:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-14 03:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-12 10:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-14 03:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-15 08:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-15 07:50 pm (UTC)The Netherlands should pay more per capita, as they make more as well. So should countries like Luxemburg, Finland and Sweden. I do not expect the average Irishman, Italian or Greek to cough up the same amount, let alone some poor Pole or Romanian.
What is wrong with enlarging the EU?