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Nice article I read somewhere else on LJ. There are thinking Americans after all.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/639017.asp?0na=2101110R&cp1=1

Though I guess I already knew after plenty of reactions on two of my posts here. It does give you a ray of hope for the future after seeing what happened yesterday. I love these discussions with well thinking people from everywhere, even though I don't agree with half of them most of the time. I'm glad my LJ list has at least 7 nationalities, even more cultural backgrounds.

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From:

gerbie.livejournal.com

It is true that one's view always change as soon as things like this happen to come (too) close. I'm not saying I want the world to be passive, I just say that an eye for an eye has never brought a solution. I'd still try to be neutral, however difficult it might be. But it wouldn't comfort me knowing that innocent people had died out of revenge.

From:

aquariusmama.livejournal.com

No, I don't want innocent people to die either. Thousands died on Sept 11th though. This really has nothing to do with the innocent people living in Afghanistan. Anytime there is a military action though, innocent people get hurt. It is sad and unavoidable. Maybe the Taliban and bin Laden could have thought of that, but once again, they don't give a damn.

From:

gerbie.livejournal.com

I know the military action is aimed at the responsible. Problem is that the innocents are the ones who die, as happened in NY. Several UN staff have died. The ones you want to suffer, are the ones who are powerfull enough to avoid suffering. These actions can never be succesful.

From:

aquariusmama.livejournal.com

On September 11th war was declared on America. There was no warning, there was no build up, there were no official discussions or any way to avoid it. Thousands of innocent people from many countries were killed in this attack on American soil. The US had no choice but to be dragged into a war against the agressors. This wasn't a war the US asked for or that anyone wanted. We were given NO choice. When the US identified bin Ladin as the one responsible the responsibility fell to Afghanistan and to bin Laden himself.
The Taliban has accepted hundreds of millions from bin Laden in support. They have harbored and supported and encouraged his actions. There for they are linked and also responsible.
Afghanistan has known since 9/11 that this military response was coming. They did nothing to prevent it, they had many chances, they did nothing. They had WEEKS to move innocent people, the US did not. They still did nothing. They have had warning after warning over the last few weeks and they did not listen. They were given a final 72 hour warning, still nothing.
Now there are complaints about innocent people dying? Those complaints need to be directed to the Taliban and bin Laden. The people who are dying are the ones the government ignored, too poor to have the means to leave on their own. The Taliban and bin Laden have the money and the means to move these people. They want their deaths, they want the US to be blamed. They could be killing people themselves just to blame it on the US, who knows. You are right, the ones that should be suffering are powerful enough to avoid it, for now, but they should also be preventing the suffering of their people. They were able to prevent military action, they were able to prevent a war, they are the only ones that had that choice.

As far as UN deaths. 4 Afghan security guards for the UN were killed. That is horrible. What about the people that are rallying against the US, though. What are they doing? They are attacking UN buildings and burning them down. The Pakistani police are the ones that are having to shoot these morons. Do you think they care about innocent lives really (the moron rallying people)? If they did, why burn down the buildings of the UN, who are there to help the suffering. No, the Pakistanis just don't want any more starving Afghans in their country. It's a mess, but it is not something that can fall on the US's shoulders. Not this time, not this particular situation.
They shouldn't have attacked Americans without expecting a price to be paid.

From:

gerbie.livejournal.com

I can't remember a declaration of war. Have I missed something? Which country announced that they are at war with the US?

A war is one country against another. Or more. But NOT terrorism, that's an entirely different story. And even though there seems to be evidence against one person, I still haven't seen conclusive evidence.

As for those innocents: these people could have been moved, offcourse, apart from the fact that there wasn't a benefit in it for the Taliban. It would have been like an invitation: look, here we are, it's just us, bomb us. The innocent people in Afganistan have been suffering for nearly two decades now. They have suffered under the Taliban, a movement that became strong as a result of American influence in the cold war. They are the ones that have been dying in big numbers for ages, when the whole world has been ignoring them. Why should the Taliban suddenly change their policy? They are not American...

From:

aquariusmama.livejournal.com

War was declared, not in words, but in action. The country was Afghanistan because of their support of bin Laden. I feel like I am repeating myself on that one. Obviously we need to agree to disagree on that. The same thing goes for the proof, no one is going to bring you personally the proof at this time. (Unless you are cleared for classified information, in that case, go demand it!) I have seen enough proof to convince me.
I really am sorry that innocent people are dying. I did care about the women and children in Afghanistan before all of this too. I wasn't turning my head to it. Over a year ago I sat crying watching a television show on what the Taliban has done to people. They are sick bastards. As far as your last paragraph, I think it speaks for itself. The Taliban has never cared about the innocent people, they knew what would happen if they didn't cooperate...
As far as Americans changing policies, I don't know specifically what policy you mean. However, I think that changing policies depending on the situation and changes in the world is something that should always be open.

From:

gerbie.livejournal.com

Okay, agree to disagree on the first point.

Chancing policies: Iraq benefited for ages, as the US considered Iran a threat, then when they invaded Kuwait, they were suddenly the villains.

Taliban, same story. Received weapons and money while they fought the Soviet Union, now they are the worst threat on earth.

Both examples to me show the 180 turn the US has made, as both Saddam Hussain and the Taliban have been following a fairly straight line (which I do not support btw, just to be clear) since they came into power.

From:

aquariusmama.livejournal.com

You are right. Well, I am glad that the US made the turn. Politics especially international politics is a tricky business. I can't imagine trying to keep peace with the amount of insane leaders in this world. So, I guess sometimes you have to appease someone you don't like in order to get what you want or need at the time. Or, to keep the peace somewhere else and not start another conflict.